crime and justice with ashleigh banfield

Returning with ASHLEIGH banfield urgent to the main pageCRIME and Justice Department to hunt down serial bombers nationwide;
No. 10 potential explosions found, how much is left? ;
CNN Hero Brad Louden: adventure can be cured 6-
Month p ETAired October 25, 2018-
ETTHIS is a hurried transcript at 18: 00.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated. [18:00:00](
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified woman: Tonight, a nationwide search for a sick and twisted bomber.
By definition, it\'s a serial bomber, yes, it\'s also a terrorist.
Woman: Is he hell?
Tend to mass murder?
Unidentified male: I hold my breath and I hope this is-off situation.
To be frank, I know we are going to play.
Unidentified woman: eight targets, ten bombs, all look the same.
I do doubt there will be more.
Unidentified women: But there are hundreds of ways to find who did it.
US President Donald Trump: We will find those responsible and bring them to justice.
Unidentified women: This little clue is a powerful blow to us.
Unidentified male: There is growing evidence on each package.
Unidentified women: from DNA to hair and clothing fibers, to the possibility that a bomber might have a pet.
Unknown man: Do you have any hair, sweat, spit--
They always think it\'s a perfect crime.
Unidentified man: the fingerprint on the tape-
But the last American bomber was tracked within 18 days.
Unidentified men: they must be sent there by hand.
Unidentified Woman: So, how long will this only be dragged in and locked?
Unidentified male: This is clearly intended to intimidate people politically.
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: We are fine.
Woman: I\'m not afraid.
Unidentified women: Is there anyone else on the list?
Unidentified male: whoever did it really wanted to do a bad thing, but the risk increased too quickly.
We will bring these perpetrators to justice. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Ahli Banfield, HLN crime and justice host: Good evening, everyone. I\'m Ahli Banfield.
This is \"crime and justice \".
\"Tonight, the hunt for a possible mass murderer is underway.
Some think they can get away with the deadly wave of eight U. S. leaders and not knowing what\'s going to happen now.
Because luckily none of the items were detonated, it means that each item is still full of clues.
From misspelled labels and US flag stamps to prints and skin cells that may be left behind.
Tonight, all ten suspicious packages are in good condition and are in the hands of the toughest investigators the country can offer.
The sender may not spell under this microscope.
We know what investigators are looking.
Find the smallest piece of evidence that will help them track terrorists.
With me tonight, I have an incredible team that knows forensic knowledge about a key securities and explosives consultant and retired ATF explosives investigator Anthony May.
That\'s what happened.
Director of the Center for Excellence in explosives.
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Francis at Jacksonville State University, is with us and he is a certified death investigator.
Tom Fuentes, CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former assistant director of the FBI, is here.
Forensic psychiatristDaniel Bober.
Cnn hln legal analyst Joey Jackson and CNN legal analyst Paul Karan not only analyzed what they did to find this person, but what would happen once he or she or they were discovered.
Tom Fuentes, I want to start with you.
For the most important question, that is, do you think they really have a person at this early stage who is being carefully observed and observed each step, or is it too early?
Tom fuentes, Cnn\'s senior law enforcement analyst and former assistant director of the FBI: I think it may be too early to do so, Ashleigh.
They will continue to go through all these devices.
I don\'t even think they have all the equipment, the one just discovered today still needs to be brought there, but, before they get a chance to look at every device and see if there\'s any DNA or other fingerprints, other materials that can be recovered, separate from bomb parts that may be archived, say, people who already have fingerprints on file before they reach that point, I think it\'s too early to say they have suspects.
BANFIELD: It\'s fascinating that all 10 packages have return addresses, Debbie Wasserman Schulz, misspelled and notable.
But they all have a return address.
Does this lead investigators naturally to say that this is a commonality that Debbie Wasserman Schulz clearly has that commonality, maybe we should start with Debbie vasman Schulz\'s office in Florida and find all the grievances that used to create problems for her? Tom? [18:05:06]
Forentes: Oh, okay, for me.
Well, you know, if you start with this, you remember last year congressman skalis was shot dead by Bernie Sanders supporters in the Republican softball game.
So, if you want to look at some of the potential enemies of Debbie Wasserman Schulz, you can start with the supporters of Bernie Sanders who feel she helped him cheat from the Democratic presidential nomination.
So there are many ways to see who might be her enemy.
BANFIELD: Yes, I think a lot of people don\'t know right now.
They have eyes on them.
I \'d like to go to Joseph Scott Morgan if I can.
Because Joe, while there\'s a lot of political discussion about what\'s going on and the 10 goals are the goals of Democratic opportunities you know, let\'s say that, there\'s also criticism of President Obama--
Or President Trump has the commonality of these programs.
Each of the 10 is almost the same.
Until tapes, envelopes, stamps, and things that most people don\'t know that seem to be used to attach these labels, there is a lot of forensic evidence that is visible to the naked eye, but not visible to the investigators.
Start with stamps and tape.
What might be lurking under them?
Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic professor at Jackson State University: Yes, ash, thank you for inviting me tonight.
Of course, there is tape on the stamps and tape for backing.
So one of the first things that comes to mind is a little bit of fiber that can paint an environment built by one person and these things are at home.
You may have skin cells left behind after placement.
You may have hair.
Even if we start thinking about things in their environment, like pets, the fibers are picked up if they have cats, dogs, this stuff, even guinea pigs.
Not to mention clothing fiber.
Things like natural fibers and attached synthetic fibers.
We look at this through this lens and try to break it down into the simplest terms we can.
For example, along the surface of these packages and the outside of the tape, we can have something like, say, if you notice these pictures you see, we have tape that looks black.
This is a surface without holes.
Now this thing may pass through the hands of several people, but there may also be potential fingerprints in that environment.
So, you know, it\'s just the beginning.
As our colleagues have just said, all of this has not yet entered the laboratory.
So there\'s too much information to sort out, but that\'s a proof --
Rich environment.
BANFIELD: Let\'s say for the time being that someone has watched the show \"Forensic Archives\" enough to know that a potential fingerprint is a deadly thing --
Especially when 10 packages may share the same print.
So maybe this guy handled these packages with gloves.
When you wear gloves, it\'s a bit difficult to pull the tape off the roll and pull the stamp off the roll.
Yes, yes.
BANFIELD: So the fingerprint may not be on the package, but it may stick to the adhesive for the tape.
That\'s what you call plastic prints, I guess?
Well, yes, but plastic printing is traditionally called--
Let\'s say you put your hand-
People at home will hand you, you will leave a print, say in a sticky substance like an oil tank or glue, or people may think of something like Silly Putty or playdoh.
It\'s actually like a plastic print.
If you have this adhesive backing on the back of it, when you peel this off, you can actually leave the image of your print behind.
Remember, the mark left, there is a friction ridge at the end of our fingers, which leaves the impression.
Banfield: I \'d like to bring Anthony May and Jimmy Oakley, if I can.
Anthony, I started with you, and so far, the real pipe bombs we know are small in themselves, and they are considered primary, but they can run, they contain pieces of glass and then you can see this sticker ---
It looks like a rough image of ISIS, like an image of the ISIS flag.
Let me take a look at the components first.
Also on CNN.
There was a digital timing device at that time.
If you are looking into the issue and trying to find the sender, please let me know what some of these components tell you.
Anthony May, consultant for safety and explosives: Good afternoon, ashili.
The components of the device are similar, 10.
This will basically help to ultimately lead and identify the perpetrators.
PVC pipes are now standard in terms of the components themselves.
We have seen this in equipment and galvanized pipes all over the country. [18:10:00]
They contain fillers. Which is --
It may be a dangerous substance, an energy explosive that has not yet been determined.
Then it contains some lines and lines from Santa Ana, which I believe is a digital timing device outside the pipe.
The timing device is not working properly now, or is usually not found in the parcel mailed.
Because the idea is to mail the bomb, the letter bomb is designed to get a specific target.
There is no way you can guarantee that your goals will arrive at the right time.
So it\'s unusual for this thing to have a digital clock. So, you know --
Just look at x-
Light, from the device, it is clear that what the bomb team is concerned about is that there is a substance in it.
However, the x-
Ray also revealed some other good intelligence about the device that allows them to handle it safely and remove it from the site.
Banfield: Well, I think you just found something interesting.
Jimmy, I will bring this to you, but thank God none of these ten explosive devices have exploded, in the hands of a courier, mail handler, someone\'s administrative assistant, or someone walking on the sidewalk or next to the mail carrier.
None of these exploded.
We were told everything was in good condition.
They were not detonated when they were taken to a safe location.
I can only imagine Jimmy, they can stay complete because someone in your business means a wealth of information.
Collect information, track information. Am I wrong?
Jimmy Oakley, an expert in bomb research at the University of Rhode Island: You\'re right.
As you said, it is indeed informative.
You \'ve asked Tom to talk about everything you might have on the package, and Jay mentioned fingerprints and DNA evidence.
I would say that you might still have all of this if the tube exploded.
As someone who made 130 tube bombs and fired them exclusively for research, you won\'t start to destroy everything.
You have all kinds of evidence.
In fact, I collected the fragments, took a look and analyzed them.
So anyway, there\'s a lot of evidence when the device is up.
The question is, of course, why are we so lucky to have 10 devices and 10 non-detonations?
Banfield: So, Tom Fuentes, weigh in the image of the ISIS flag.
Some people say, don\'t read too much, it\'s a rough similarity that can be sent out as a red herring by Googling and printing it out.
Others say it\'s just domestic terrorism anyway, but what will investigators see on the flag?
Finn: As you said, Ashley.
They will see both sides of things.
Maybe it\'s ISIS supporters, maybe it\'s not.
Maybe it\'s just something to put in as a joke.
They don\'t, you know.
Probably at this point until they know more about the devices, how they are assembled, and if there is a signature method for making or assembling explosives, I think they just use this as another piece of information that may or may not be relevant.
BANFIELD: Jimmy, we quickly realized that the glass shards were found inside the pipe rather than sticking outside in some way, and I was told in many bombs that when they were outside, any kind of projectile is more effective, so they will have more tracks if the bomb explodes.
Is it incorrect?
Or, is there any difference in the nature of the investigation when you try to find the person doing it?
OXLEY: Well --
Banfield: Jimmy, I\'m going to jump in. we have a bad signal with you now.
So when we bring you back
Anthony, would you mind answering this question if you can? Just think that the projectiles are all inside the actual device, rather than forming a trajectory that is easier to explode by sticking to the outside?
May: of course, I would be more than happy to answer this question.
Basically, usually when the shrapnel is added to the device, you will see that it is for defense.
People, usually added outside.
This does not mean that we have never seen it put in.
It\'s not true either, because I have, I \'ve restored the device with shrapnel inside, but what\'s going to happen here is that the explosive material takes up some space.
If the explosive material is inside the pipe, you will get less explosive material.
The explosive material must destroy the container and project debris and shrapnel from the container at the same time.
So you lose some energy. It`s not --
A bomb maker who knows what he\'s doing might put it outside. [18:15:20]
Banfield: Okay.
I want you to keep that idea for the time being.
Because I think many people find something interesting, if you don\'t look at criminal trials and evidence in court, you may not know how specific the daily products you buy at home are, when you go deep into the micro level, how specific they are actually.
Like a piece of paper in a printer. Right?
Looks like millions of other people, right?
Sometimes there are few stripes in a product like this.
When they fly on the machine that makes them.
Sometimes these stripes are so unique that you can trace them back to a lot of places.
Then you can find that shipment in the store.
I mean, you can track the point of sale.
You can then trace the point of sale back to the person who bought it.
What about these bomb parts?
Can you do it? That is next. [18:20:00](
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: The Response found a device that appeared to be a site explosive device.
Unidentified woman: PVC ping, explosive powder, glass, active shrapnel, digital clock connected to the battery, placed in a manila envelope with these six US flag stamps.
We see a very clear pattern.
Unidentified men: these devices now have a lot of forensic value because none of these things really go away.
Unidentified male: You have a fairly complete device and are able to provide a lot of clues. (
End video forbidden editing)
Banfield: a lot.
A lot of clues.
We can even start the unpacking thread by tonight.
Because even if FBI experts start testing all 10 packages, even if all 10 devices are carefully removed, we know enough details to start connecting these points to find out what the sender wants, and whether mass murder is really an intention.
Paul Karan and Joey Jackson, I\'m sitting with you in enough seats to discuss enough murders with you if you\'re a regular Joe, you don\'t know what you know, or what you know, or what the FBI knows.
Start with printer ink.
What do you know about the fact that the ink on the printer is actually zeroed? PAUL CALLAN.
CNN legal analyst: Well, a lot of people would be surprised to know that actually the ink you use on paper is scientifically based.
Obviously, if you \'ve been going back to the date receipt trying to prove that you should deduct it, it\'s very interesting for the IRS.
The IRS can come in and say that according to our chemical analysis, the ink was not produced until 1980 and you are trying to get the deduction before that.
Does ink have a signature?
Karan: of course.
In the event that the date something happens is a problem, it often appears.
BANFIELD: Do you have a signature for the cartridge you bought?
CALLAN: of course, the cartridge will have the signature of the company that made it.
But you can make a son.
The analysis of the ink itself to determine, now also ,--
BANFIELD: so put the pictures up and when you say it, I want to put the pictures of those packages and the specific address of the bold print.
A lot of ink is used on these addresses.
At the return address and delivery address.
I mean, every piece of paper looks the same, all the prints, all the fonts, everything looks the same.
CALLAN: It really impressed me, because when you look at the font and look at how it\'s printed, it can also give you a hint, yes, the cartridge used, but it could be a printer that makes letters.
Then you can look at it and say, when did that printer sell?
Where does that printer sell?
This is a very, very important thread that can be created by the lettering itself.
BANFIELD: it feels new, even in a recent episode of Forensic Archives.
\"To be honest, be able to track someone through the ink you print.
It gets better.
The product you bought
Look at these envelopes.
Joey, do you think anyone has 10 envelopes lying in the house?
Joey Jackson, CNN prime-time justice guest show host: Look, even if they do, they have to buy it at some point.
So this is where the plot is thicker.
Paul talked about the issue of actual ink.
But you have to put the ink on something and you quote the actual envelope.
When you buy an envelope, obviously there is, you can really trace the stripes on a particular envelope, and in fact the envelope itself has fingerprints.
So there\'s a case, you and I are talking about it, the case of Melanie McGuire, which they call the suitcase murder.
For example, I use this.
So she chopped her husband\'s body and put it in her suitcase, but she put the body part in a bag of components.
BANFIELD: garbage bags.
Jackson: garbage bags.
Because of the garbage bags, investigators were able to track the garbage bags, they were able to identify the stripes on the garbage bags, track where the garbage bags were purchased, track where the garbage bags were sold, and they tracked them under her sink.
So they matched the bags there.
So, in addition to what Paul Callan says about the ink, it gives a lot of hope for the person to be brought to justice, the envelope itself, to tell us who this person is. [18:25:09]
Banfield: So, the idea here goes a step further.
If they can find the batches of these envelopes and even the tape that is rolled up, if they can be in these specific 10--
Thank God there are ten. Thank god.
If they can find these stripes, match them with the batch, match the batch with the store, match the store with the purchase time, and have those surveillance cameras watch at the same time, 10 people--
The same person was monitored ten times and you found your person.
Jimmy, jump with me if you want.
Does this sound far? fetched to you?
Or does this sound like a map they used to track this bomber?
Oakley: I think there are leads that are easier than the ones you outlined.
This is certainly possible, but first of all, you will look for fingerprints and DNA.
These may be good. -
You can find something simple first.
BANFIELD: of course, you have to start getting a little more refined if not, do you?
Oakley: of course.
Then look at the clock, for example, the timer.
These types of components are a bit more distinctive.
Of course, I\'m still waiting to hear what the filler is.
We haven\'t heard of this yet.
We have not heard what the boot system is.
These are usually very powerful clues to the source of the device.
As you have asked the guest to point out, in most places you know who bought the camera.
Banfield: Anthony, jump in if you want.
I\'m fascinated and I don\'t want to say rest assured, but for those who handle these 10 packages without their knowledge, they\'re fine tonight and I\'m absolutely at ease.
They may not know that they are dealing with a crude but actionable explosive device.
This leads to a problem, how did these devices explode during transportation?
They are squeezed through the equipment, thrown on the conveyor belt, thrown into the bin, thrown on the steps, and thrown into the mailbox.
I mean, the trucks and potholes they passed.
How did it not detonate before it reached its intended destination?
This is very interesting, Ashley.
The only way to answer this question is to look at x-
Light and follow wires.
As we have pointed out, there is a timer outside and a bunch of wires.
A question was asked about the initiator.
There\'s some speculation based on x-
It\'s actually a hot bridge wire.
Well, if that is the case, there is not enough power in the device to work the hot bridge wire.
The two button batteries are just used to run the digital timer and I don\'t see any other battery that can run any other type of switch.
Now, whether it\'s the bomber\'s deliberate design or the bomber\'s mistake, it\'s still to be seen, but luckily the 10 devices didn\'t go away and it gave us a lot of information.
BANFIELD: OK, keep this idea for the time being.
When we show these pictures, there is also the concept that many times you will see the packaging in a few pictures you actually see.
Whether it\'s CNN\'s John Brennan in the lower right corner
Hand side, or you see these two images at the middle bottom.
But you saw it too.
What kind of light shooting is the device, but one question that hasn\'t been answered yet is how much damage can these devices cause?
We have seen bombers hurt people before.
We saw bombers kill people.
What will these devices do if they succeed?
We will let you know next. [18:30:00](
Business break)(Start Video)
Unidentified male: The Response found a device that appeared to be a site explosive device.
Unidentified woman (voice over)
: PVC pipe, explosive powder, glass, active shrapnel, digital clock connected to the battery, put in the envelope with these six US flag stamps ---
Unidentified male (voice over)
We see a very clear pattern.
Unidentified male (voice over)
: Forensic Medicine has a lot of value because none of these things really disappear.
Unidentified male (voice over)
: You have a fairly complete device that can provide a lot of clues. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Ashleigh banfield, host of crime and justice: it\'s not just about forensics.
The hunt for the serial bombers behind all the packages this week will come down not only to the clues he left, but also to the steps he took. [18:35:03]
The crumbs traces of this killer will soon show up, and thanks to a simple skill we do every day, we track a delivery. (
Start Video Editing)GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D)
New York: It looks like some packages are delivered by express mail.
\"They were sent down.
Home with multiple cameras and security cameras.
So now we\'re analyzing this video, security camera footage, to see what we can find out, because that\'s one of the main clues they\'re focusing on.
Again, every package, the possibility of DNA is greater, the possibility of fingerprints is greater, and so on. (END VIDEO CLIP)
My group is back.
I have some of the most skilled people in law enforcement to answer the most important questions.
How do we find this guy?
Tom forentes said to you
The idea of a security camera.
You can\'t walk the New York neighborhood anywhere in the country unless photographed by a camera.
So my assumption is that there\'s a fan
Go out now and collect the real
Time videos of all places, especially Opa-
Locka, Florida, now we understand that these packages are probably sent from real eyes.
Time will scan 10 different types for the same person, right?
Tom fuentes, senior law enforcement analyst at CNN: That\'s right, Ashleigh.
You may have dozens of cameras in the vicinity of Soros House, Clinton House, Obama House, all postal service facilities, outside the Time Warner building, maybe more, and then into the mail room
So investigators will analyze many videos.
If you remember the Boston Marathon bombing, look--
On the third day after the explosion, two bombers woke up on the Boston sidewalk with backpacks and baseball caps.
BANFIELD: To be honest, we live in The Truman Show.
For the same person 10 different times, it would be a bit too coincidental if he or she appeared in 10 different images.
Hold on for a second.
Jimmy, many of us were obviously very worried about the evacuation yesterday.
This is a huge twin tower.
It\'s hard to see two towers evacuated in New York.
Many of us want to know how powerful a mail bomb, a letter bomb can be?
How much damage can it cause, how many deaths?
Jimmy Oakley, an expert in explosives research at the University of Rhode Island (via telephone)
Not a lot.
This is a very small device.
Its purpose is to become a single
A bit of a human device.
So the person who turns it on and triggers it will get hurt and maybe anyone of the three will get hurt
The foot radius will hurt.
Yes, normally, this is not the intended goal.
Idiots who send this message may not know that these expected targets are processing personnel, security personnel, mail assistants and administrative assistants.
So often, the most innocent people will be affected by these things, and in the past.
So, for you, Joseph Scott Morgan, about the dynamics of the actual bomb.
Inside the bomb is glass debris.
For many ordinary people, they look like broken glass.
For people like you, they look completely different and can be tracked. How?
Certified death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan: Yes, you know, if there are pieces of glass, we have to assume that they were obviously broken before the bomb was built.
So we are looking for a pattern of broken glass, which is one of the things that happened.
It is important for us to know the origin of the glass must be, you know, we pass through the glass products every day and we will not think about it.
But let\'s think about this example.
What type of glass is it?
Did it come out of the standard window glass?
Did they get the safety glass from the car?
Or a bottle of old whiskey that has cracked?
This is important.
If the origin, if that glass, the origin is still left in the scene, you can take the pieces that are there and it is possible to match them with the origin.
Banfield: match them up. MORGAN: Yeah.
BANFIELD: So if you can solve the other two problems in 30 seconds, it is that there is a tear pattern on the tape used.
They ripped it off in some mode. MORGAN: Right.
BANFIELD: in the home or office of the perpetrator, cut off the wires with some equipment.
How did you track it?
Morgan: Yes, actually, like glass, we\'re thinking about the tearing of the tape.
This is also the fracture pattern that goes back to the tape.
This is used repeatedly in countless cases where you will match these torn pieces from start to finish. [18:39:57]
Now go back to the wires, where they are curled and cut, and all that sort of thing, which can go back to the specific tool marks used to connect those wires.
So this is a specific point of individuality, and as we mentioned in forensic science, it can be linked to individuals.
BANFIELD: Everything you touch leaves some sort of fingerprint, not just literally. MORGAN: Right.
Banfield: Great.
There are so many micro crimes.
Fighting tools outside today.
Keep your thoughts up, Joe.
We became so good.
We are getting better at tracking people who think they know better.
Because the time it takes to find them is getting shorter and shorter. U. S.
Law enforcement has a long history of tracking serial bombers.
So next, we\'ll look at the lessons learned from the Ted Kaczynski survey, and how these lessons are used as applications in this case. [18:45:00](
Business break)
BANFIELD: the clues may come from the package.
The clues may come from a pipe bomb or from a delivery service or monitoring.
But any criminal expert will tell you some clues from the past.
As this week\'s delivery appears to be a tragic and targeted event, the people behind them are not the first to send a deadly bomb.
We have seen this behavior before.
The bomb in the city of orrama hit people who are not disgusting, which means that we have found a way to hunt down these people.
May panel is still here.
The doctor joined me.
Forensic pathologist Daniel BoDr.
Bober, I want to go to you because I want to know what you think right away.
You have seen all 10 packages.
You have seen similarities.
Do you think we are dealing with one person or more people?
Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist: I think it might end up being someone.
But the interesting thing is, you mentioned before, what is the motive for this person to kill?
Or just to create fear and chaos?
I think this is the biggest question we have to answer because this person obviously has a certain degree of technical complexity, but not a lot.
So if you look at past bombers like Eric Rudolf or Ted Kaczynski, they all have an axe to grind and for some reason they all have anger.
The question is whether or not this person wants to kill, or just wants to create fear and chaos?
As a forensic psychologist, I think this is the biggest problem for me.
Banfield: You mentioned a few things in history.
These must be killing people.
I just wanted to review it because I was very interested in the fact that I might be wrong, even if not all, but I am a man and they tend to be the ones who do it. BOBER: Yes.
Banfield: Theodore Kaczynski, Ted Kaczynski, the annoying guy, it took us 17 years to find him, but we did.
Eric Rudolf, it took us five years to find him, but we did.
Walter Le Roy Moody, it took us less than a year to find him in just over six months, but we did.
It took us 18 days to find him earlier this year, but we did.
He blew himself up.
And Timothy McVey.
We all know what he did.
He was caught that day.
So it is entirely possible that we are getting faster and faster in tracking these people, and this time too.
Many of them are-government.
What do you think of this, doctor? Bober?
BOBER: Well, I don\'t think it\'s surprising that this person has some sort of extremist ideology.
But maybe we can see the technology trigger.
What is the emotional trigger? What is it?
Is it negative?
Is the scathing now spit out every day keeping this person on the edge?
This is likely to be a problem that we need to pay attention to as a society.
Let me ask you, Paul Callan, is this a federal crime or a state crime?
We have seen it before.
Paul callan, CNN legal analyst: Oh, of course.
Every state where such a crime occurs, they can make a charge.
One federal charge, however, must have been screaming, is the use of weapons of mass destruction.
This was used in the Boston Marathon case, with 30 charges in the indictment, 30 convictions and a request for life imprisonment or death penalty.
BANFIELD: death often leads to lifelong negotiations, as in many such cases.
Soon, 30 seconds left.
What this man does is hateful.
Joey Jackson, a CNN criminal defense lawyer and legal analyst at HLN: Yes.
But is this a hate crime?
Jackson: Well, you know, it\'s not a big deal.
It will be important about his motives, about his intentions.
But in terms of punishment, Ashleigh, it\'s not going to make any difference.
Whether it\'s a state prosecution or a federal prosecution, he faces life.
What is most certain is that this will be a federal prosecution.
Banfield: What I want to say is-
We talked about it before we aired it.
I think this will happen before the end of the week. I really do.
I think so--
I hope you are right. BANFIELD: --
There is too much forensic evidence, more than 10 times, and maybe we haven\'t done it yet, and if there is, maybe there will be more evidence to show up in front of others on the hot list.
That\'s not what I hope.
God forbid that any postman, courier or innocent person will eventually be hurt by all of this. Anthony May (ph)
Dr. Joseph Scott Morgan Tom Fuentes
Thank you all, especially since it was our last show.
It\'s good to have all of you and your incredible expertise involved. [18:50:01]
We love you, Ash. (CROSSTALK)
Banfield: Thank you very much.
Something else--
You are the best.
Oh, God bless you.
You know, over the last seven years I have been very proud to be able to work with the CNN family and the HLN family for a very good reason.
Everyone here is great.
But there\'s this.
Every autumn, we pay tribute to 10 ordinary people who are different from each other.
But what happens when we focus on their work?
For Brad Louden, the top 10 2016 hero, it means he will extend his mission to cure cancer to young people. (
Start Video Editing)
CNN Hero Brad Louden: 2016 CNN Hero showed us on the international stage, and since then a group of different patient advocacy groups have contacted us, ask if our project is applicable to their population.
These conversations convince us that young people with MS can benefit from this adventure --based healing.
We are happy to pilot our first project with MS for young people
I am overwhelmed by how far the organization has gone.
I just feel humble for it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
We are humbled by the heroes.
But who will be the top 10 Heroes of CNN this year?
You can find their live broadcast on CNN\'s \"New Day\" on Thursday, November 1. \" [18:55:00](
Business break)
BANFIELD: Finally, tonight, I want to take a moment to thank you for being part of our \"Crime and Justice\" family.
You have welcomed our team for the past two years.
You haven\'t seen 22 of them behind the scenes, but they are the most talented and diligent investigative journalist in the industry.
You welcome them to your home and we have done our best to dig deeper into the facts and tell the internal stories of some of the most mysterious and Frank of some of the most outrageous crimes, seek justice for those who may not be able to seek help on their own. (Start Video)
Tonight, he may be the latest serial killer in the United States.
An Amber Alert for a young girl missing from the church.
Some crimes are so outrageous that there is not enough justice in the world.
Criminals make a mess of things.
Why don\'t you admit this and blame the victims?
You did, you harassed an 11-year-old.
That\'s what you did! O. J.
Simpson was released on parole after nearly nine years in prison. P.
This is the largest mass shooting incident in modern American history.
The news came from parklands, Florida, Broward County, where at least 14 people were taken to local hospitals, but the death toll is still being counted.
Jessica Boynton lives in her bedroom closet.
The police set up the entire fake murder scene and then videotaped her when they told her husband that she was dead.
She didn\'t know it was a recording. Good acting. I saw the coin.
It\'s okay. someone will use it.
He still gave a cheeky look.
A man is accused of entering a romantic opponent\'s home in a 1-meter reader\'s costume.
Watch the video.
But when Katrina went to receive the prize, the casino said not to roll the dice.
They say the New York Gaming Commission is very clear to look that if there is a fault, there will be a fault.
What happened at O. R. ?
He lied to all of us.
Why should we doubt that he will not lie to the police because of his beautiful wife, Shanann, except for his love and love for the little girls who he says she was strangled, no one will say anything.
Liar, he said.
Said the liar!
What exactly is your beef, you had a bad day with Aziz0 Ansari, but if you have just had an unpleasant sexual experience, you should go home.
You have crossed the line between me and all my sisters in the workplace who have been dreaming of sports for decades. (END VIDEOTAPE)
That\'s why I like to work here.
Jackson: The best business here.
You can do all these things.
You say all these things.
You know, you can speak for people who may not speak for themselves.
By the way, if you didn\'t notice, Paul Karan and Joey Jackson started everything about me seven years ago.
We did it.
Of course, we started with Ashley.
BANFIELD: That\'s why you\'re the legal analyst for my last show tonight, and I thank you.
Jackson: you are--
We are very happy that you are a TV lawyer and I have learned a lot of laws from him.
I have to tell you. [19:00:00]
You really are. (LAUGHTER)
Banfield: you need to go back to school.
Jackson: Law in life-
Thank you guys.
Jackson: Incredible. -
Incredible Human
I have to wrap it up.
We love you. We really do.
BANFIELD: I\'m going to wrap it up there, I\'m going to wrap it all up. We are done.
Thank you very much for being a part of him.
I appreciate every moment and good luck from all my colleagues who live behind CNN and AON.
The next hour of crime and justice begins right away.
Tonight, a sick and twisted bomber is being searched across the country. (
Start Video Editing)
My definition is a serial bomber. Yes, there are terrorists.
Is he all about mass murder?
Unidentified male: I hold my breath and I hope this is-off situation.
To be frank, I know we are going to play.
Eight targets, ten bombs, look the same.
I do doubt there will be more.
But there are hundreds of ways to find out who did it.
US President Donald Trump: We will find those responsible and bring them to justice.
BANFIED: a small clue to a powerful blow.
Unidentified male: There is growing evidence on each package.
From DNA to hair and clothing fibers, to the possibility that a bomber might have a pet.
Unknown man: there is no hair, no sweat, no vomiting.
They always think it\'s a perfect crime.
Unidentified man: fingerprints on the tape
But the last American bomber was tracked within 18 days.
Unidentified men: they must be sent there by hand.
BANFIED: So how long does this take to get locked up?
Unidentified male: This is clearly intended to intimidate people politically.
Woman: We are very good.
Woman: not afraid.
BANFIED: Is there anyone else on the list?
Unidentified male: whoever did it, he really wanted to do bad things, but the risk increased too quickly.
We will bring these perpetrators to justice. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Good evening everyone.
I\'m Ashley Banfield.
This is \"crime and justice,\" and tonight, the hunt for a possible mass murderer is underway.
Some people think he can escape the deadly wave sent to eight American leaders and people who don\'t know what\'s going on now.
Because thankfully, none of the bombs were detonated, meaning that every bomb was filled with clues, from misspelled labels and American flag stamps to prints and skin cells that could be left behind.
Tonight, all ten suspicious packages are in good condition and are in the hands of the toughest investigators the country can offer.
This Fender may not spell under this microscope.
We know that what investigators are looking for is the smallest piece of evidence that can help them track terrorists.
Join me tonight and I \'ve gone to an incredible team that knows the forensics of keys, securities, consultants and retired ATF explosion investigators.
Jamie Oakley is a colleague.
Director of the Center for Excellence in explosives.
Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensic medicine at Joseph State University, is with us.
He\'s a certified death investigator.
Senior CNN officer Anaylst and former assistant director of the FBI, Tom Fuentes, are here, Dr.
Daniel Bo, CNN and HLN, Joey Jackson, and Paul Cullen, CNN legal analyst, legal analysis.
Not only is it necessary to give up what they are doing to find this person, but what happens once he or she or they find it.
I want to start with your Tom Fuente.
So the most important question is, do you think tey really has a person who is being observed at this early stage, looking carefully at each step, or is it too early?
Tom fuentes, senior law enforcement analyst: I think it might be too early, Ashleigh.
They will continue to go through all these devices.
I don\'t think they have all the equipment.
What I just found today still needs to be taken.
But before they get a chance to look at each device and see if there is any DNA or other fingerprints, other recyclable materials are separated from bomb parts that may be archived, say, before they arrived at that point, people who had already had fingerprints on file said it was too early for them to have suspects.
It\'s fascinating that all ten packages have return addresses, Debbie Wasserman Schulz, misspelled and notable.
But they all have a return address.
Leading investigators naturally to say that this is a common person, apparently a supporter of Debbie Wassman Schulz.
Maybe we should start with Debbie Wasserman Schulz\'s office in Florida and find all the mall grievances that have caused her problems in the past. Tom?
Forentes: Oh, for me. OK. BANFIED: Yes.
Forentes: If you-
If you start with this, you remember when Congressman Scalise was shot last year by a Bernie Sanders supporter in the Republican softball game.
So, if you want to look at the potential enemies of Debbie Waisman Schulz, you can start looking at Bernie Sanders, who feels like she helps him cheat from the Democratic Party\'s nomination for the preferred fiscal candidate.
So there are many ways to see who might be her enemy.
BANFIED: Yes, I want to have a lot of attention to people I don\'t know.
Now, their eyes.
I \'d like to go to Joseph Scott Morgan if I can.
Because Joe, while there\'s a lot of political discussion about what\'s going on and the goal of ten goals being Democratic opportunities, let\'s say that, and people who criticize President Trump.
There is also the commonality of the package.
Each of these ten is almost the same until tapes, envelopes, stamps, and tapes that seem to be used to attach these labels are not known to most people, and there is a lot of forensic evidence that is invisible to the naked eye, but investigators can\'t see it.
Start with stamps and tape.
What might be lurking under them?
Certified death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan: Yes, ash, thank you for inviting me tonight.
Yes, of course. These -
Especially there is adhesive on the stump and tape.
So one of the first things that comes to mind is a little bit of fiber that can paint an environment built by one person and these things are at home.
You might have skin cells-by placement.
You may have hair, even if we start thinking about problems in the environment, like pets, and if they have cats, dogs, that\'s the problem.
Are you like a guinea pig?
These fibers are not picked up by clothing fibers mentioned, such as natural fibers and adhesive synthetic fibers.
We look at this through this lens and try to break it down into the simplest terms we can.
Also along the surface of this package and the outside of the tape.
For example, we can say above that if you notice a few pictures you see, we have tape that looks black. That`s a non-porous surface.
Now, this thing may pass by the hands of a few people, but we-
There may also be potential prints in this environment.
So, you know, it\'s just the beginning.
Again, as our colleague said just now, all of this has not yet entered the lab, so there is too much information to sort out, but it is a proof
Rich environment.
BANFIED: Let\'s say for the time being that someone has watched the forensic archives show enough to know that the potential fingerprint is a dead giveaway, especially when ten packages may have the same fingerprint.
So maybe that guy handled those packages with gloves.
Morgan: Yes. It`s -
BANFIED: So there may be no fingerprints on the package, but it may be possible to subtract the adhesive for the tape.
I think it\'s plastic.
Morgan: Yes, but plastic printing is traditionally called-
For example, where you put your hand, I will let the people at home understand.
For example, you leave a print in a sticky substance in an oil tank or glue, or one might think of something like Silly Putty or play --doh.
It\'s like a plastic print.
If you have this adhesive backing on the back of it, you can actually leave your fingerprints when you peel it off.
Remember, the mark left.
We had rubbing ridges at the end of our fingers, which left an impression.
BANFIED: I \'d like to bring Anthony May and Jimmy Oakley, if I can.
Anthony, let me start with you.
So far, the real pipe bomb we know is very small in itself.
They are considered primary but can be operated.
They have glass shards and then there\'s this sticker that you can see that looks like a rough image of ISIS like an image of an ISIS flag.
Let me take a look at the components first.
And there is a digital timing device on the bomb provided by CNN.
If you are looking into the issue and trying to find the sender, please let me know what some of these components tell you.
Anthony May, consultant for safety and explosives: Good afternoon, ashili.
The components of these devices are similar to ten.
This will help to ultimately lead and identify the perpetrators.
Now, as far as the components themselves are concerned, PVC pipes are standard, and we have seen a lot around the country, as well as galvanized pipes.
They contain high-energy explosives that may be some kind of hazardous material but have not yet been determined.
Then it contains some lines, and I believe CNN\'s line is a digital timing device outside the pipe.
Now, the timing device is not normal, or is usually not found in the parcel mailed, because the idea is to mail the bomb, the letter bomb, designed to obtain a specific target, you can\'t guarantee that your goals are accessible at the right time.
So it\'s unusual for this thing to have a digital clock.
So, you know, just look at x.
The light from the equipment, obviously, the bomb team is concerned about a substance inside.
However, the x-
Ray also revealed some other good information about the device.
It allows them to handle it safely and remove it from the site.
Okay, so you just found something that I thought was interesting.
Jimmy, I\'m going to bring this to you, but the fact that these ten explosive devices, thank God, did not explode in the hands of a courier or mail handler or someone\'s administrative assistant, nor did anyone walk on the sidewalk or mail carrier, none of which exploded and we were all told it was witty.
When they are taken to a safe place, they are not detonated, they can remain witty, I can only say to someone in your business, which means rich information, forensic in information, tracking information. Am I wrong?
Jimmy Oakley, an expert in explosives research at the University of Rhode Island: You\'re right.
As you said, this is really informative.
You \'ve asked Tom to talk about everything you see on the package, and Jay mentioned fingerprints and DNA evidence.
What I\'m going to say is that you might still have all of this if the tube exploded.
As someone who made 130 tube bombs, deliberately detonate them for research if you don\'t start destroying everything.
You have all kinds of evidence.
In fact, I collect the pieces, take a look and analyze them.
Therefore, there is a lot of evidence whenever the device is started.
The question is, of course, why are we so lucky, ten devices and ten non-detonations.
BANFIED: so Tom Fuentes, on the flag, on the image of the ISIS flag.
Some people say, don\'t look too much.
This is an image that can be searched and printed out by Google, starting as a red hearing.
Others said what would Investigators see on that flag?
Forentes: Ashley, what did you say just now?
They will see both sides of things.
Maybe it\'s isis supporters, maybe it\'s not.
Maybe it\'s written as a joke.
They don\'t know.
Probably at this point until they know more about the devices, how they are assembled together, and if there is a signature method for making or assembling explosives, I think they just use this as another piece of information that may or may not be relevant.
BANFIED: jimmi, soon realized that, as far as we know, the glass shards were found inside the pipe, not in some way attached to the outside, any kind of shell I have been told in many bombs is more effective outside, so if the bomb explodes, they will have more tracks.
Is this incorrect or is the nature of the investigation different when you try to find the murderer? (INAUDIBLE)
You know, Jimmy, I\'m going to jump in.
We have a bad signal with you now, so when we let you re-establish.
If you can, Anthony, would you mind answering the question, just thinking that the projectiles are all in the actual device, not easier --
A trajectory that is prone to explosion (INAUDIBLE)the outside?
Anthony May, consultant on safety and explosives: of course.
I would be more than happy to answer this question.
Basically, when the shrapnel is added to the device, you usually see that it is usually added to the trader, but it is usually added to the outside.
This does not mean that we have never seen it put in.
It\'s not true because I have it.
I have found the equipment with shrapnel inside.
But what is going to happen here is that this takes up some space of the explosive material, so if the explosive material is inside the pipe, you get less explosive material, the exposed material has to destroy the container, at the same time, the fragments and shrapnel of the container are projected.
So you lose some energy.
Knowing what he\'s doing is not a bomb maker, might put it outside.
Banfield: Okay.
I want you to keep that idea for the time being, because if you don\'t look at criminal trials and evidence in court, something interesting will happen, you may not know how specific the products you buy each day at home are, and how specific they are when you go deep into the micro level.
Like a piece of paper in your printer, right?
Looks like millions of other people, right?
Sometimes a product like this has almost no stripes inside when flying over the machine that makes them, and sometimes these stripes are very unique and you can track a lot.
You can then track the shipment to the store, then you can track it to the point of sale, and then you can track the person who bought the point of sale.
What about these bomb parts?
Can you do it? That`s next (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Unified male: the responding personnel determined that the device was a site explosive device.
Uniform woman: PVC pipe, explosive powder, glass after sharnel, digital clock connected to battery.
In an envelope in Manila, a unified male with six American flags: We saw a very clear pattern.
Uniform men: there is a lot of forensic value to these devices because nothing is gone.
Unified male: you have quite a complete set of devices that can provide a lot of clues. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: a lot of clues.
We can even start the unpacking thread by tonight.
Because even if the FBI experts start to take all ten packages apart, and even if all 10 devices are carefully removed, we know enough details to start connecting these points, to find out what the sender wants and whether mass murder is really an intention.
Paul Karan and Joey Jackson, I\'m sitting with you on enough sets to discuss enough murders with you to know that you \'ve seen these things happen before.
If you\'re a regular Joe, you won\'t know what you know, what you know or what the FBI knows.
Start with printer ink.
What do you know about the situation of returning ink to zero from the printer?
Paul Callan: a lot of people will be surprised to know that there is a science that allows you to date with ink that you use on paper.
Obviously, the IRS will have a lot of interest if you have taken back the date receipt to indicate that you should deduct it.
The IRS can say that, according to the chemical analysis, it was not until 1980 that you started playing, and before that, you tried to collect the deduction.
Banfield: unbelievable.
The ink is signed.
Karan: of course.
In cases where the date of what happened is a problem, this happens frequently.
BANFIELD: Do you have a signature for the cartridge you bought?
CALLAN: Well, of course the cartridge will have the signature of the company that made it.
But you can make a subanalysis of the ink itself to determine, and now you can--
Banfield: so put the picture up when you say that --
Boldly print out the pictures and specific addresses of those packages.
A lot of ink is used on these addresses, including return address and delivery address.
I mean every piece of paper looks the same, all the prints, all the fonts are the same.
CALLAN: I made a deep impression on you, because when you see a font and how it is printed, it can give you a hint, yes, the ink cartridge used, but it could be a printer that makes letters.
So can you see and say when this printer was sold and where that printer was sold?
This is a very, very important thread that can be created by the font itself.
It feels so new.
To be honest, this does not seem to be in the forensic files of recent episodes.
Someone who can track the ink you print.
But some things even--it gets better.
The product you bought
Look at these envelopes.
Do you think anyone has 10 such envelopes?
Jackson: even if they do, they have to buy it at some point.
So this is where the plot is rough.
Paul talked about the practical problem of ink.
But you have to put the ink on something.
You\'re just quoting when we see the actual envelope.
So when you buy the envelope, obviously there\'s-
You know you can really track the stripes on a particular envelope.
In fact, the envelope has its own fingerprints.
So this is a case, you and I are talking about it, the case of Melanie McGuire.
They call the suitcase murder.
For example, I will use this.
So she chopped her husband\'s body and put it in her suitcase, but she put it in a bag of components.
BANFIELD: garbage bags.
Jackson: garbage bags and because of garbage bags, investigators were able to track them down.
They were able to identify the stripes on the garbage bags and track where the garbage bags were purchased.
Track where the garbage bags are sold and track down below her sink.
Special bags there.
This gives a lot of hope to bring this person to justice, and the envelope itself reveals who this person is, in addition to the clues that Paul Cullen gave us.
So this idea goes further.
If they can find the batches of these envelopes and even the tape that is rolled up, if they can be in these specific 10--
Thank God there are 10, thank God-
If they can find these stripes, match them with the batch, match the batch with the store, match the store with the purchase time, and have these surveillance cameras watch 10 people at the same time-
The same person is being monitored 10 times, well, you have your people.
Jimmy, jump with me if you want.
Are these sounds a bit far-fetched to you, or does this sound like a map they use to track bombers?
Oakley: I think there are easier leads than you outlined.
These are certainly possible.
But first of all, you need fingerprints and DNA.
These may be good. -
You can find something simple first.
Banfield: of course, if not, you have to start getting a little more refined, right?
Oakley: of course, then look at the clock or the time wrist-
These types of components are a bit more distinctive.
Of course, I was pushed as a chemist and I was waiting to hear what the filler was.
We haven\'t heard of it yet, and we haven\'t heard of what the boot system is.
These are usually very powerful clues to the source of the device.
As you have asked the guest to point out, there are cameras in most places to know who bought them.
Banfield: Anthony, jump in if you want.
I\'m fascinated and I don\'t want to say rest assured, but absolutely rest assured that everyone who handles these 10 packages is fine tonight without their knowledge.
They do not know that they may be dealing with a crude but actionable explosive device, which leads to the problem of how the devices exploded during transportation?
They were pushed in by the equipment.
They were thrown on the conveyor belt.
They were thrown into the bin.
They were thrown into the steps of the door and stuffed into the mailbox.
I mean, the trucks and the potholes they pass through, how did they not get detonated until they reached their intended destination.
This is very interesting, Ashley.
The only way to answer this question is to look at x-
Light and follow wires.
As we have pointed out, there is a timer outside and a bunch of wires.
Someone asked about the initiator.
There\'s some speculation based on x-
It\'s actually a hot bridge wire.
If so, then there is not enough power in the device to work the hot bridge wire.
The two button batteries are just used to work the digital timer and I don\'t see any other batteries that work, any other type of switch.
Now it remains to be seen whether this was intended by the bomber or the bomber\'s mistake.
However, we are lucky that these 10 devices are not turned off and it is provided as your rich information.
Banfield: Okay.
Keep this idea for the time being.
There is also the concept when we show these pictures, many times you will see the packaging in a few photos, you have actually seen the device itself, whether it\'s CNN\'s John Brennan in the lower right corner
Or you see these two images at the bottom of the middle.
But you saw it too.
What kind of light is the device shooting.
But one question that hasn\'t been answered yet is how much damage these things can do.
We have seen bombers hurt people before.
We saw bombers kill people.
What will these devices do if they succeed?
We will let you know next. [19:30:](
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
An unidentified male: the response found a device that appeared to be a site explosive device.
Unidentified women: PVC pipes, explosive powder, glass acting as shrapnel, digital clocks connected to batteries, and Manila envelopes with six US flag stamps.
We see a very clear pattern.